The Alexander Taylor Show
The Alexander Taylor Show

Episode · 3 months ago

Psychedelic Society Of Oklahoma Ft Emily Williams

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

I want to give a big thank you to Emily for coming on the podcast to discuss psychedelics, society, religion, and much more!

Please go like their facebook page!!
https://www.facebook.com/OklahomaPsychedelicSociety/
psychedelicsocietyok@gmail.com

Hello, everyone welcome to an episodeof the Axanti show. I am the one and the only Alexander himself and I have avery, very special gets here with me from Psychedelic Society of Okola,Emily here, hello. How are you I'm doing fantastic Mato Emily here? So Iwas, it was actually at work. I was sitting there like. I want someone Ifee like there's something probably going. I don't know about what Secondoson Clumb, I don't know, I just googled it and it's the first thing popped up,so guys, good news, because I was so guys easy fine, so you just took over- and you said Junecrt, that's right, okay, so who was like who started it? I guesswho was the previous person a reigning because it's a non proper rate, I'm my cre, not yetnot yet? Okay, okay, so I guess talk about it more! I let you get into it ofwhat exactly Sacada Society, but coma is sure. Well, I found out about them last November,when I was really you know, I've known Iwanted to work in Psychic Alex for the last four years. I have anundergraduate degree and psychology, and so last November I had been pursuing this company thatdoes things in psychedelic system therapy and had been pursuing themextensively for three plus years. Finally got a phone interview for a jobI applied for and didn't get to the next level, but it was like such a motivating factorthat I got some attention from this company that I was like. You know whatI need to stop chasing this company around and start doing something andpsychedelic. So I message them psychoid on facebook in November and our beautiful founder Maria respondedand said: Yes, please, like, let's let you volunteer, I decided to do the newsletter. I did a couple newslettersand then round April may Maria was really shewas really just kind of ready to let it go because of some personal things thatshe was going through, but also she was ready to focus more on her artisticcraft of dancing and music and singing, and she was actually kind of founded it.If you want to call it that he show like essentially sort is. Is She likegave you her baby? Like she tol it, it was hard I think first as she chose todo with yes, yes, trust you had some towels in your just warn my heart when I saw thatbecause I'm really learning to trust. So it's like a sign, yea anyways. Shewas inspired to. She was told by Mama Ia. For those of you don't know, that'siowas Ka, very feminine energy. During a ceremony, she was told by Mama I hadto start a psychedelic society in Oklahoma, and so she did and so she'sbeen kind of running the last two and a half years, we're not incorporated. Yetthat's really what I've been focusing on is building a structure for theorganization. I have a meeting with an attorney, not profit, attorney in acouple weeks to incorporate on the state and then federal level, but I let her nose, like you know itall, just when you start kind of relaxing alittle bit and not trying to force your life to be a certain way, a really likethings just start immediately opening up for you, so she was just like you know, I'm readyto let this go. I'm just ready to focus on that, and I was like you know whatI've been working a non profit for the last five years. I've had a lot of training andnonprofit management, and I was like it was just like that thing. I was like Ohmy gosh. This is all meant to be like the pervicacious divine intervention,whatever you want to call it, so I was like I'll take it I'll, do what I canwith it and that's what I've been doing ever since in so. This is like a fairlyvery new organization very to very, very neat. Well, you know two last twoand a half years she's been doing different like she had a feweducational events and lots of socials we've really been focusing on thesocial aspect of it. But yes, it's in the sense of like structure legalstructure. It is very, very anpost cover, that's lose things that wellobviously yeah wow. So because that's how I was looking at to them, like theguys very like new, like I never heard of the organization anything- and I'mlike I'm so surprised by this, because I know like a fairly amount of peoplethat do second dogs as well- and I don't hear anything about like it stillunder the table and not discuss like to think you don't want to talk about. Youknow Oh yeah so like when I go it. He was like what the Hell I've never heardof this place like what lies organization. So when I started kindtrying to do my research, I did see his very new because she's from an Thoshe's from, but she came from California correct. I think so yeah,okay right because I like kind of tried to like I said, try to do more research,for I was going on because, like I said, never heard of it, but so what's thegoal for the organization? What's the overall message you guys are trying togive so the goal of our organization is tobuild a community around psychedelics. It is to provide a safe space for S,lots of different people. So from what...

I'm finding like at our last OtacoTuesday, there were several people that came that I never met, and basically some people are coming inhave never done psychedelics, but they want to learn more. They see that allthese organizations, you know like Johns Hopkins and MultidisciplinaryAssociation for Psychedelic Studies, they're doing the DA trials and peopleare seeing the benefits from it, but are a little fearful, of course,because one it is still illegal and it is still stigmatized, especially, Ithink in our part of the country. Do you know what I mean? So that's the onewe're trying to create a safe space for those people that just want to learnand be educated, but we're also trying to create a safe space for individualswho are going through psychical adventures, because there are many manymany people in Oklahoma an around our country who are taking psychedelics for personal gain or not gain, butpersonal development. GROS growth growth. Yes, Oh do you think medicalmarijuana helps has helped it like. I do you take me to yeah yes, so that'sone of my personal goals of the organization is to shift to thenarrative around these plant medicines. So medicalmarijuana, that's a plant medicine, so I sometimes don't necessarily agreewith how some of the marketing is. Like. Oh four, twenty a like I, you know,that's cool, that's cool, but I also want people to view it, as this is aplant medicine that can help you grow spiritually and personally in your lifeyeahs. I've had I've met people me personally. I've had I felt likepsychedelic experiences on high yeah on high doses and HC. You can definitelyit's definitely like, maybe taking a low amount of like mushrooms, yeah orthings can get a that's gas. Everyone is a salt yeah yeah as something inedibles yeah yeah. Everyone says low doses of homes. They think theycompared to that like wow, it's crazy o. That is so. What's your personalexperience to Sacada? Well, I've always been a very. I was always a very likeintrospective child, so it just seems like such a natural fit. When theseplant medicines came into my life. I took mushrooms for the first timewhen I was about fourteen with friends. You know I'm not advocating forchildren to do these. pisiness are legal, so please be safe and berespectful to these, because they do have a spirit within them and you needto respect that spirit, but so yeah, so that was my first timedoing much rooms and then, when I got a little older, I did LSD many times loved thatexperience. I've never taken high doses of LSD, so just FYI. So I don't knowwhat that's like. I'm sure, that's pretty crazy stuff. It was your firstis what was the when you were fourteen moves out like I was just with friendsat my house, and we just feels like yeah. We got so much room. You know,you know what do we know about my turns when you're fourteen and what Westernsociety tells you is like? Oh you're going to trip out you're to see pink,elephants or whatever that didn't happen, but it was just this. You knowvery warm. There was a meme that I saw the other day and it said thatmushrooms plant your roots, but lst spread your branches, and I thinkthat's really really true, because I know personally when I've taken suicideand mushrooms, it does feel like a very grounding experience like you wereliterally being reconnected to the Earth, and I think that time when I wasfourteen a it was just kind of fun. You know there's lots of giggling lots ofLa you know, but there was that deep connection of like introspection oflike thinking about where you came from and your childhood and the friendshipsyou have now and which was interesting. And then I gotolder, I had a silicide ceremony where I took. I thinkit was about three and a quarter grounds, and that was extremely profound. I definitelyprepared for that. I set my intentions and my attention was to I had several,but they were basically like. What's my purpose in life, how can I be a better person? How can Ibe a better wife to my husband? How can I be a better mom to my kids and thingslike that, and so we drank that in a t. well, we allsat around and I did hope I think that's how you say it rope so thatindigenous sacred tobacco that they snuff, that they blow up your nose. Ohyou've, never heard of it. It's spelled R ape, but I think that R has a it'slike. I think it's hope, but don't quote me on I'm not in a but man the second. They did that it wasjust like the the s snuff because they...

...did that first, and that was just likeimmediately like my heart, literally like felt like it just like opened andtear started. streaking me down my face, like I'm, probably going to cry, and Ikind of hope I do in this podcast but ter started streaming down my face andI had started to think about my grandmother who had died of pinedcancer. When I was eight, I had actually brought her blanket with menot intentionally just because, like a plant, medicine can make you cold, sothey say to bring extra blankets and I started thinking about her and cryingand it was such a you know a lot of the time. I think wejust hold these feelings in and creates blockages in our body, which thencreates disease. I think- and just you know maybe even its oilless, who knows but mealie started opening up, and thenwe got our little tea and set our intentions and the drink our tea, andthen they recommend everyone. You know, put your eye mask on, lay back and goinward and they start playing music, and you know it's beautiful. I start seeing you know the sacredfaces, I don't know do you know Alex Gray the artist I feel like I've heardof that name. A well it's like I've heard of it. Yes, okay! Well, he is apsychical artist, he's amazing him and his wife, Allison Gray, or both verytalented, psychedelic, artists and people and started seeing these like secret facesis like okay, wait a minute. I've seen him paint these before I've. Seen thesebefore and then kind of journeying a little more and this song comes on, and this woman saysremember, it was just like this, like I was shot out into the void, andI saw the very first creation of the Big Bang. I saw all the constellations,all the galaxy, all of the planets being created and in mind you. This isall within, like probably like five seconds or something I see all the plants crane- and I see youknow earth you know, get coagulated and Crin to Earth, and then you know theoceans and then the fish or the Alga into the fish to the land animals to me and that it was me- and it waslike. Oh okay, I remember who I am. I am all of creation and we all are- andthat was intense- that was yeah. I'm here like, Oh, because I've never breakit down like that yeah, but maybe I've not made a lot of people who've donelike actual ceremony, I don't think I don't think I'm any one a done a likean actual ceremony. Yes Ik! You sat down like you said you were thatpurpose and goals to look inward yeah, and I looks like that's what you got.You got to answer to everything you needed yeah. Absolutely. How long didthat last? Do you remember well, mushrooms, typically last about fourhours depending on you know, give and take how much you take, but those arepretty quick. I mean compared to like LSD, those depending on how muchjealousy you take could be anywhere from eight to twenty hours. You know,depending on how much you take, but that whole that moment right there inthat situation like where I was like. So until I like came back into my body-and I was like- oh that was probably like only an hour and a half- I thinkthe first hours, the most intense and then the next couple hours after that'skind of like you know, journeying and ward, but notlike seeing the whole case was being created. I can imagine it that's whyI'm like I'm always worried of it, because I can imagine that freaking meout. I freaking someone else yeah, it's bad. You know absolutely and that's whyyou'll hear this all the time surrender surrender surrender like surrenderingis the most important thing to do, and what does that mean? What issurrendering? That is letting go of fear expectations so like in thatmoment, I could have really thought that, like when that started, I wouldhave been like oh no, no, no like and then like ten sup and then that's wherekind of bad trips come in when you're, like the fear, consumes you in thisdark shadow and you're, like which all of us basically live our lives throughfear, like almost all the decisions we make, our behaviors. How we talk topeople act towards people comes from fear. So that's why I think these sacred flintmedicines are so important, because it's definitely taught me to surrenderto that fear and surrender to expectations in life and all that Jazz,I'm sure you're probably going to say. But when you're saying on that, I mthinking ego like they just say: it's your Ego des and a lot of people. Ididn't really know because we used the term ego like kind of just loosely hoesego like that person has a big go, but then there's like an ego spiritual. Iguess you want to say a spiritual ego yeah. I guess you I say, and I think itwas Ecatotowin now I think I read that book and I started like Disette. We Egowas- and it really freaked me out...

...because I'm like it's kind of sincesaying who you think you are or not. I guess in a way like you've been createdby society in the world and the way you were raised and all these things areyou, but really not. Yes, I guess it that makes sense. I was literally liketalking to myself about that. It was raining earlier before I came here andI was in the rain thinking about ego and talking about ego and to myself,like my having conversation with you like yeah anyway, but yeah from what myunderstanding is with ego. It's the false sense of who you are so you knowI could say my ego is I'm an office manager, I'm a mother, I'm a wife, I'myou know all of these things that have painted this picture. Belief of who Iam and these conditioned thinking. But the truth is, you are not to Sont Cliche, but you are theearth. You are source energy, you are, and we are all connected to thatvibration, and that is who your true self is, and that's what spirit wastrying to show me. I was like remember who you are yeah remember who you are.This is who you are this? Isn't you emily? That's not who you are like? Youare the trees and the plants and the living organisms throughout thisuniverse, and that's a beautiful peal. It's very beautiful, like we talk aboutI'm like thinking about it because I never like. I said I've never doneSokoto, but I started getting to meditation and stuff, and I startedkind of access that, like connection to the universe and earth and just startedfeeling, I guess whole and peaceful and it does sound Cliche, but really inbecause when you're meditating a stuff and you're focusing on your thoughtsand your in yourself, you kind of have an awakening of I'm. Everything doesn'tseem like what it is. I guess you want to say Yeah Yeah Star getting to likethis. Is Me like this. My physical is not who I am then the soul inside of meor someone inside an me else that lives within me. I guess you want to say so.You're going through a spiritual awakening process, yeah, yeah, yeah andthat's the thing too, is that you know you don't have to use these plantmedicines. You are the medicine like these plant medicines are just a bridgeto help people who don't really are a little resistance or don't reallyunderstand what all that means to allowing you to discover who you areand what you are and do all that jazz. But I'll talk about another experience Ihad with a ceremony, and this is what silicide this is not si like. Oh No,okay, this one was with Mt. Okay, I was just at th, says, RoseYeah. This one is mt, it the only time I've ever done it and it was a ceremonyfashion were quick. So how and how long was it like when, between theseceremonies? I going to do this a couple Mites? Okay, a couple months, a s as Ididn't know like you took years all like. I didn't know, let me ask this before you get to this.Let me say this: Is it safe or is it to be doing these ceremonies or trips? Does it matter how often it's done ordoesn't matter or the risky? I guess saying: If you do a SOCII ceremony,like you said, if you much to do d MT, is there any concerns are for like aslong as you understand? What's going on within you shouldn't matter, I thinkthat a concern comes in when first of all, there's not of researchyet, which is great, why these things are being like de criminal is researchis happening because we want to know what's going on. I think the concerncomes in when people want to live in the medicine. Theydon't want to do any of the integration they. You know, they're they're in themedicine they're like Oh, this is beautiful. Everything is beautiful. Allthese things in my life that I could you know, fix and develop into, butthen once they're out of the medicine, you know there's a glow afterwards thatcould last two weeks to a month where you're, just you know, you're justbibing with the universe you're like yes, I feel good to I've learned allthese things, but unless you're actively participating in your own lifeand actively participating in that integration process of say, Oh, youhave anger issues and the medicine tells you you need to relax and dosomething with your anger or whatever, if you're not actively doing thosethings and you're just running back to the medicine you're, never going todevelop, you're, not growing. That's you just sticking in with the medicineand how on a physical, like health, wise doing it different medicines atyou know all the time. I don't know about that. That's that's anotherquestion. Do you answer the perfect? Because that's why I was thinking ofsomeone that says. Okay, this the ceremony gave me these answers and thenyou know. Obviously the ceremony ends. You kind of you know come down from itand if you elite you're like Oh, I need a game. I need that and yes cones,because they're chasing that feeling they're chasing that unconditional love,because that's what the feeling is. It's an unconditional love feeling anda lot of us have an experience on conditional, leve and our life.Probably all of us do have it because I like yeah, exactly so h, that's afeeling you want to hold on to and you...

...grasp on to, but that is anotherattachment m. okay, yes, a yeah! That's what you know the Great Buddha said: Sidarthaeverything's impermanent. We can't clean to these things. I was perfect.Okay, you answer to properly, though anyways you can tell go ahead aboutyour your ceremony. If you months go with them T, okay, so it was a ceremony said intentions. We did it with cannabis with using like a like a. What is these con gravity? BonMa ler bottle, I think so DM like a crystalline powderand a lot of people smoke it through, like you can smoke it like out of likeone of the crack pipes, but I think a lot of people that are interested in plant medicines are chemically dependent on drugs. Sothat's really triggering I think, to smoke it that way. So it's much easierto maybe do it in, like a gravity ball with cannabis. It's you know it's also easier to tsmoke it that way, anyways. So my intention for that onewas just to understand or to obtain any lessons Ineeded to learn and right when it was about my time to go, because there were several otherpeople that went before me. Thank goodness calls wasn't not the first one,because I was nervous. I was like hot may be the first, so I was less so Iwas like sweet Levy. Universe are always listening. Aren't you this songcame on. It was like I release, control and surrendered to the flow, and I waslike that's a perfect song for me because when I did my civilidadceremony, my my breath is my anchor. My anchor is my breath. Surrender was kindof the words that I held on to so when that song came on, I released controland surrender to the flow. I was like, Oh that's, perfect, but it came on likebefore it was my turn and I was like no and then when it came to my turn, towant to go like change this song, but it came back on and I was like thankyou oh wand, then so I went in you know because they say with D mt You had they're like. Oh, you have totake at least three hits to break through. Like I don't know what thatmeans, I guess it depends on how you're taking it, but since it was a gravitylong who knows how much that was. Maybe that was ten who I was just so I take it and then it's like. Ireally and then I go way back, and it was just this immediate, like flipping.It was like my consciousness was like flipping upside down and doing flips,and then I immediately saw these like ancient almost like the dragons you see in like China like thestatues, but they were like like and like flipping backwards, and then Iimmediately was just in this. It was just like layer of consciousness, larof conscious, like over and over- and I didn't relate this until I came backinto my body what this was, but I was literally like going through every layer ofconsciousness. So this is my understanding that this is our layer ofconsciousness and it's like human right and there can be like other layers ofconcious like Hindu gods and things like that and other things beyond whatI can explain and then so immediately fear like what is this. Where am I, whoam I I don't like? I had all these lots within like a two second period,because they were just like you know, just deration yeah and thenall these images. I remember at one point there was this: Like Pink LittleWormy Guy. That was like we are one we were. I will never forget him, I don'tknow he was, but it was like this immediate fear.Okay, like I didn't know who I was where I was what was happening I waslike. Is this how it's always been and then all the time, and is it alwaysgoing to be this way, and I was immediately like okay? Well, I guess Icould deal with it. If this is the way is all the time, but then I was like no you're okay, this isn't going tolast a long time. That's all I could remember. I was like no you're, okay,it's not going to last a long time and right when I had that thought, like allof those thoughts happened within like a second and the second, I was like noyou're. Okay, this voice came over and it was like your okay. It was likeyou're, okay, okay, you're, okay, okay, you're, okay, you lie. It was like thisgentle motherly touch holding me and telling me that I amokay and that's when it opened up- and it was like surrendering I surrendered,is what that was. I wasn't resisting. I like. No, I don't like this. I was likea I'm fine, and so basically, whatever is okay, I hope people don't think I'm crazy forsailing this experience. I was going to say, though, Huh this. What you're saying with with thisceremony and in the silicide an ceremony seems likee when you firstentered this thing, I don't know what...

...you want to call it it's very vividyeah, but then it's like when you let go and understand. What's going on, Iguess when you kind of reconnect and you calm yourself down- you enter likeanother us. Yes, yes, so I think a lot of people like who say they get stuckin avoid there they're resisting and then once they start to kind of, let gothat's when, like the color comes and light and whatever you know, there's alot of arc types that come from your own subconscious that you see likemaybe a white horse. I don't know it's delight. I don't know this is what solike art types of my own mind through the TMT experience so right when Irelaxed I started so basically I was a seedling ofconsciousness and a garden there's this garden of consciousness and there's allthese little baby ceilings kind of like the Matrix, but not scary, and grosslike that. You know talk about like that, the not like scarica there arethese two women talking about just chatting like to and from the brocksthat just left the hair salon and they're chatting just on the streets,and then they go. Oh, my gosh look over there and they're like talking about meand they're like look at that. Look at that and they're like you. Just forgetyou just you. Just forget and they start crying and basically it was aseedling of consciousness, but most of the seedlings don't wake up. Most ofthem don't look around and go hey what's going on, but I was doing thatand they were like they were like shocked by it, because that's so rarefor someone- and I realize now it's it was awakening. It was my sole awakeningand it is rare for people to awaken their to their true self and right at that moment, the all the layers of consciousness,the entities, whatever you want to call it started, having parades in thestreets and they were one woman at they were celebrating my awakening and at one point there was a woman at likea pedestal like like at the Washington monument wherethey were new speeches like mark. She was like this love. Is God, becausethere is a song that was on? That was like this? Love? Is God? God is thislove, and this is this is what love is. This is unconditional and yeah, and then I came back into my bodyand immediately was like no t. You know. My Ego was mealy trying to protect meand it was like no that wasn't real. You didn't see that that they're notcelebrating your awakening like just calm down, okay, you know, but Irealized now that that was my ego trying to protect me and that, yes,these entities were celebrating Oh and another thing during that ceremony. Iimmediately came to this really. It was like this, and this is very common. Ithink where it's like this has happenedbefore. What's that word called Tuso de Jan VI, and I realized that that hadhappened to me many thousands of times, and I merely was like oh no, I'mstaying awakened like they've, been trying to do awaken me for thousands ofyears, and they don't have to do anymore. Like I'm awaken. This isthat's freaking me out and I so wi bout de Aboon the other day I was talking tomy girlfriend, I'm like I have these days out, o all the time like withrandom things, and I'm like it passes me off because I feel like I can likefeel it like. I know what's happened before. I can't prove it. I can'tobviously, but I can literally go into a situation and feel that exact sameemotion like I feel to before and see the exact same things like I've eventold her. I'm like, I feel, like I've seen you before, like I knew this wasgoing to happen to me ye going to connect and she's like she getsconfused because he's like o'phats of de Avuto, but I know on that level andI'm like it's literally like a spiritual level of an scares me where Ifeel like anxiety, where I'm like this freaks me out. It is scary, it is scary,but only because we don't understand it right, and this is another thing thatplant medicine has taught me. Is that get out of your head and into yourheart like when I did my sile Simon ceremony. One of the facilitators wastalking to another girl and she was like you know the next time you need tomake a decision. You just put your hands right here and she put her handsright, hair and you see you, you feel. What do you need to do? You feel it youdon't think it you we constantly are in our heads, especially me. I over analyze everything and it makes mean insane person. You know not literally insane, but I know ye like es. I can rely, should dothis. Should I do that? Are the Onthinkin W I'm learning to like okay into the heart and when you can intoyour heart life is so easy. It's just like. Oh, how do I feel like a? What doI feel I should do. Okay, though, and then like thanks just start opening uponce you get out of your head and into your heart, I can relate to this somuch because I feel the same way yeah like, and I think it's a I think when you let go like we'vetalked about it's way easier, because...

...when we analyze everything it's so it'sso easy to get caught up in what someone else is thinking or doing orwhat you think you should do about this and that and it can just a literal, bea rabbit hole yeah. But when you just let go and like I don't have a controlover it, the universe whatever may be can take over I'm good yeah. You kindof feel way better way better, because I can really say so much, I'm soanalytical by everything. So, okay. So what are the differences in like whenyou did the silicide ceremony and the DEM t ceremony? What were the maindifferences, or is there really different, likesignificant differences? I think like when you do thing like DM, like pereGMT, it's a lot like very visual like even if you take a one small I haven't.You know that s e only time I done it, but I've known people that have done itand you know if you take like one small hit of dn, like maybe your hand, turnsinto a cartoon. So what I mean, but if you just take a little bit of silicideand you're not going to have visuals like that, it's going to be more of awarm feeling. Maybe things are a little wavy. Things are definitely morecolorful, bright, vibrant, like it's like hd times ten, so I would say the difference. It'shard to say. Definitely not the GMT ceremony was tentimes more intense and profound. Do you feel like it'll, be okay, so someonewho comes off to street, like you said, you've, met some people who say I wantto get in the psychedelics. Would you say you need to start off with doing soside, men or would you just say asked them? What are they looking for?What do they feel like they need and go by that? I would want to knowspecifically what your intentions are with the medicines. What are youspecifically trying to do? Are you trying to increase your you know, development,your growth or are you just? Are you wanting to go party with some friendsand take some psychedelics like it really matters what you know set andsetting that's what you hear all the time set means your mindset. What isyour mindset and you're setting where you doing it like you feel safe for youround people you trust, because if you're not, then you probably shouldn'tbe taking Psycholican? Obviously you can go really bad yeah. I'm assumingI've never heard any stories, but I just can't assume like for mepersonally, I'm like since I've had issues a mental ones and something I'mjust weary of it. Like everyone, I have friends, who've done it. They suggestedto like it's not going to harm me whatever, but I'm just like. At thesame time, I felie that's something you need to be ready for and open minded to,because I wouldn't want to go into it. Anxious because of my felice yeah, I'mgoing to have a bad experience yeah, but I definitely don't want to try oneday because I obviously her I've never heard a bad story again, but I canimagine it can go left. I know they say I don't really know that's why thereneeds to be more research, like I heard that people who have like psychosis,like skitzton shouldn't be doing psychedelic as it can put them in a totally dark place forever and ever, but you know, it'd be really cool oneday. If they do start doing research on people,maybe it was good to fringy. Maybe it could be ben official. I don't know,but I say I tell people you know proceed with caution and respect,respect, respect. That is one of the most important things for me is likerespect these medicines, because there's a lot of people out there thataren't respecting them and they're having really bad trips and giving these sacred plant medicines abad name. Really, do you think they're being when someone does that they'rebeing or can be punished? What do you mean of my like you saidwhen people disrespect the Medicine, Oh yeah like source yeah, and it yeah I'mtalking like you're getting punished in the WO. I don't think like sources likethis mean thing: it's like. Oh I'll, show you but yeah. I think source knows, and I say, source sourcecan be spirit. You know, God I just won't use the word God because it hadkind of a negative connotation in my life. Aforsaid say sources for me tonot not that negative, but yeah, see when you say God: People just tie tojust relate religion, but when I like, I say God, but I mean higher self whenI say go yeah I got T, tell people I pray and the like, O, not religious andI'm like. I don't want to break it down to you, but yeah, but yeah. I know whatyou mean, I'm glad you said that, though, because I know a lot of peoplelike what source, what is source yeah, I mean God yeah, okay, yeah, so, okay,so do you feel like the again? So, if like someone can be not punished, butagain, like you said sources, not some big scary thing so juste like it can be repercussions ourguess. I guess you want to say if that's a better word to use, I thinksource if you're being resistant and difficult and disrespectful they'lldepending on the plant medicine. US I've never done Iowaka, but I hear thatIowaka. Will you know she'll put your face right in it like she won't let yourun away from it. She'll be like no, no look right here. You see that you lookat it. That's what I hear I think mushroomsare more gentle, a much more gentle, it's more of a they spirit wherethey'll more guides you and you can...

...kind of be a little bit more resistant,be like God. I don't really want to do like look at that right now, I'm goingto go over here and look at this pretty sparkly thing, but, depending on themedicine depends Kyoka. So do you have any plans to do? I was in the future ora love to. I really really it's funny, because that's really the main thingthat I've been like researching and wanting to go to, but yeah I do want to do Wawaka, okay, yeah!I lie. I don't know there's just so many I feel like people don't realizethis, because also we like sure different strains of shroms you can dowith. I found that out recently and I was like what they know. It's crazy,I'm just learning that too, and I'm like o there's like I thought there waslike one kind, Yo magic US trip, no there's like thousands yeah. I know I'mlike what the y someone's telling me that and I'm kind of no idea that Iit's just like cannabis, like these different strains and different effectsand stuff. That's something I actually found out too recently is that certainstrains can be stronger and contained more suicide or whatever thepsychoactive component is like. I listen to this guy on Youtube, HOS fromNew Zealand, where it's legal, I believe, and he cultivates them andshows people how to forge with them, and he was talking about blue meaniesand they're three times as strong as the like, once the golden caps to weyeah. So I was like well that's good to know because you just be like Oh yeah, I'mjust going to take a gratis gonna be great, and it's like. I guess that'sthe unfortunate thing. That's illegal, because people were just getting themand we don't like imagine if they were sold medically somewhere, you couldactually be prescribed them or something. Yeah that'd be way moresafer, but instead of people were just out here, taking one or doing the bestthey can yeah. I mean seriously, but I mean, like I said: I've had friends andpeople. I know that have done them and they've had great experiences. Exactly almost you just said very happywith like with mushrooms, very happy uplifting and now they're like it's.They compared to. Like imagine the first time when you smoke canibus. It'slike that. Like cause happy you're laughing he's like I'm you to thehappiest you ever will be. I'm like that, but depends on the perfect person,because I've had friends in the past that have smoked cannabis and gonestraight crazy like that they were dying like so who knows, but for themost part yeah. I feel like with the mushrooms, especially it's like youimmediately start to be. Like Oh wow, I look at this beautiful earth. Look atthe sky, I think, and then you start thinking about all ive creation. Youstart realizing. It puts things into perspective like a lot of times. Youknow I being in our heads and being go, go, go, go, go, go, go like the plantmedicines really kind of make. You stop and be like. Okay, like I'm takingmyself too seriously, I'm you know, Egos really driving my life and so yeah. I like I'm, taking myself wayto her yeah. So how hard is it would you say to comeback to? I want to say reality, but reality of what we think is around I,but how horn is it to come down and to be like to just come back to here forlike after having in profound psychedelic experience, it can bereally difficult depending on the person, I'm a I've been really lucky to havealready been on a spiritual journey throughout my life and I've done. Youknow two certification of meditation at the Bodoin Monastery. So I've alreadylike put things into practice, that for when these experience happened, that itmade it a lot easier for me, but I was worried that, like when I did theSolsidan ceremony that I was just going to immediately quit my job, like I'mdone with virtual reality, I'm out of here, but the this whole process can be really lonely, because, once you start coming into like whoyour true self is and you're breaking down all this condition, thinking thatyou've had your entire life. All these labels that you've had you start torealize, like the things that used to make. You happy don't make you happyanymore, so, like like material possessions wanting to make your house all nicelike, I need to get those grantit countertops. I need to do that. It'slike all of that, doesn't matter anymore, so relationships start tobreak down. So, if you've, if you're the type of person that justhas these friends just to fill your life up with people because you're, notso you don't like being alone or you don't like being alone with yourthoughts, you start to realize that you do start liking yourself a little bitmore and you do start realizing that you're kind of your own favoritecompany, and that you were just friends with this person or this person,because they filled a certain void in your life, but they don't really aligntheir. You know their opinions and thoughts,don't really align with what your opinions and thoughts. Now friendshipsstart melt away, and then even marriages could break apart, justdepending on...

...o how supportive that your spouse ishow willing they are to grow. It can be really lonely. So that's whyI felt a great opportunity with the PSYCHEDELIC society to provide a safespace for people who are really are going through this process and feelingreally lonely, so they can come together with somelike minded people and not feel so alone. Yeah. I could imagine that it'svery rude awakening come down here, like you know everything that I've beenliving for ever how many years I'm just not I'm disconnected from it now like.I couldn't imagine that, especially because I think also like you know,some people probably raise a certain way. Where's like a traditional home orwhatever may be yeah, and imagine they go on this sacate experience and thenthey're like my parents. They may just look at them differently and look athow they raised their rent and it made just all these thoughts and emotionspart to come up, and it makes you change, but in a better way it's Gros,but it is growth and it seems like there's this quote by Winston Churchill.That says, if you're going through hell, keep going, and it was just like. Ohwhen I read that I was keep going, keep going like just keep going like they'rewith suicide rates as high as they are, especially in our young kids like I just want everyone to see howabsolutely amazing we are like. We are this. We are all one entity. I know this allsounds Cliche, but listen as it. We are all connected, and that makes a specialand there's so much more to life than what we're taught on the surface, likeworking eight to five trying to get that house trying to get that cartrying to you, know, goals and ring like Oh, that's, all great and perfect, but weget too caught up in it and forget who we are and pe that causes. You knowdepression and I think I'm not a medical, professional or a therapist.But I feel like a lot of depression, comes from not following your heart song as I like tocall your soul purpose, and it takes a long time to understand what your soulpurpose is, and it takes all of courage to pursue that, which is what I'm doingright now and it's really scary. It is scary, but I want people to know thatwhen you're in that dark tunnel like there is a light and just keep going,keep going, keep going and when she says connected I'm assuming also youmean connected with each other and also the universe in the world. Yes, a lotof people feel like we're just not how do I put this, I guess with religion. I guess I'musing religion. I hate to sit on religion, but I do it often- and Idon't do it on purpose, but people feel like with religion wererage traditionally that God is some big figure master thing that we're notconnected to. He has control everything, yes and there's some people that theydon't feel like. They can do anything with their lives. They just pray on atprey on it, that's it, but instead it's like you really think about it. You canmanifest these things. You can yeah, I mean you can go down different routes,but manifestation writing things down believing in a lot of track in a can,go down all these things and meditations very big, and you can evenexplore like the play medicine, even candidates. If, if you know you findthe right things, you do with campus like strings and such but yeah. I likewe're raised that way to like we're not connected to the universe, a spiritualbeing that were just up here being controlled. Yes, yea than me bat, I'mkind of glad you rout this up because talking about religion, so I grew up and my father was fairlyreligious, but not the kind that was like you have to do this and verystrict and punitive. He wasn't that kind of he just had a very strongconnection with God, and so you know very kind of religioushousehold. I was the youngest. So by the time I was around, you know it kindof like melted away, like o Goin to church all the time and this and that,but so you know, I considered myself a Christian. I guess until I was aboutfourteen and I became vehemently angry at religion and God- and I saw you knowit was like this. Hypocrisy is one of my biggest pet peeves and it's like youcan't say you accept everyone and then say: Oh accept those gays. You knowwhat I mean and when I was fourteen I saw this and I was like that's BS. I'mdone screw your religions, God doesn't exist, so you know I was an atheistuntil it was probably like you know. For many years and then once I kind ofhad children, I was like. Okay, maybe you know, I'm not saying you exists,lie doesn't exist and then the plan, the plan medicines are really like mademe realize it goes back down to the conditioned mindset, the definitionsthat we put in our head, so the way religion Christianity's taught in theWestern world and America- is that God's, just like very punitive man upin the sky and he's punishing US sinners. But now I realize that firstof all, God isn't a person, it's a...

...vibration, most likely or somethinglike that, something we can't really explain: it's not a human. We onlypersonify it because we're human and we try to make it in our own image becauseit makes it easier to understand a gain I set of them. Yes, it's dumbed down.Yes, we dumb it down. So when my heart started opening to theidea- and I start to realize it's not this- you know angry angry man, it'sactually this very loving energy. That loves US unconditionally and just wantsthe best for us. So when you said you know, you know, there's people thatdo just pray they're like please, you know they just go back to praying, goback to praying. That's the same thing is going just to plant medicine. Youknow just going back to play messine going back to plant medicine, but notdoing anything to integrate it like. There are people out there that justpray, but then don't do anything in their life. They're, not activeparticipants in their life, they're just praying for God to do it. You knowwhat I mean, God and source still wants you to actively participate and takethe steps necessary to make those things happen and they're going tosupport you through it. Basically, I totally agree as I've been in aposition and I'm going through a here now. I will try to manifest on thingsmeditate on things rag you want to say, but I'm like my actions are matching it. So I needto get it together, because I know it's not going to come. If I don't actuallyyeah willingly try to go get it. You know whatever it may be, because Ithink that's when, like a big topic I hear about now as like manifactory is,I have a l, it's weird, because I have a lot of friends now getting to likemanifestation and stuff and they don't understand all of me like it's so hard.I don't understand it. Oh, it is so complex, magical ye like it's once youunderstand and gay. It's awesome. It really is because you can literallymanifest anything. You want your life and you know, there's people are goingto. Listen is be like okay seriously, guys you can manifest anything you wantin your life. You just have to trust. You have to have a clear vision in yourmind of what you specifically want. You know what it might even help to writeit down, write it down exactly what you want, and you know what don't get thatstuff out of your head. That's like! Oh! I can't do it because of this, orthat's never going to happen like let that go surrender to that and writedown exactly what you want out of your life. How do you picture your life?What is the exact thing you want to do when you wake up in the morning untilyou go to bed at night, and you put your mental energy towards that, andyou start taking the physical steps necessary to make that happen, and it'sgoing to start showing up in your life and it's going to blow your mind yeah.It really will because I've got a habit like having a vision board, becausethat's one thing that I got me manifastly a lot of successful people.I find them to be successful that to have a vision board. I literally putexactly what I want on there if I want, like people say like with like adiploma or whatever degree, to print out that degree, yea write their nameon it, put it on the board. They're like exactly put everything and I'mlike that's crazy to me, and I think people like I said I feel if you haveany doubt in your mind, that you won't get it, it won't come which I thinkit's as the hardest part. A lot of people. Don't understand that anotherthing I learned too, is that you can't go around going, I'm manifest in this,so I'm going to manifest that because then it loses its power like it'svibrational, energy, whatever you call it, that's something I read somewhereone time it was like, don't go around like telling people I've been investingthis and I you know what I mean because then it could still happen, but it justloses. Its you know is a no. I understand you mean because I like Isaid it's become like a mean like it's a fun thing, people say now youmanifesting those but oral. You seriously can manifest. Absolutelyanything you want, but I think, like I said just like withanything some things can be taken a different way and abuse, because somepeople think they can manifest themselves money and just Oh, I can bea millionaire, but at the same time it's like that's not really. SomethingI feel like spiritually are good that you want to be connected to a just.Want money. Power stuff like that. Yeah depends on your intention sources goingto just let you be a Douchan. You know what I mean like exactly yeah anyway.That's like that when you said intention like I would the power ofattention by Wayne Dyer let them win. Do I could talk about Fri, I seriously.I know Oh my gosh, I'm guys I just bought me.I'm like I can not believe I didn't get to meet him or so I know have youlistened to his Himri, the Doudan, no to it dubbed over some Nice Music, andhe reads it. You know he has just a lovely voice and yeah. I highlyrecommend, reading or listening to the doubt daggin yeah he's. So he honestlygot me on this journey where I'm at now his first one his first books, heEronia sones kind of talked about, like you know, C bt and like changing thethoughts, and then it got me into this, because I remember reading this bookand I was getting frustrated because I'm like he's basically trying to implythat what happens to you in life t is...

...not it's like what happens to you. Youdon't have to be upset about it, so I'm in my head, like you, know what, ifsomeone dies or what, if the house is on fire, he actually gives analogies.Like you know, say Your House Burns down. You lose a family member whateverit may be, I'm not saying you have no emotion but teners down the line youshouldn't be still stuck on his sang O. I never got to make it in life becausethat house fired ten years ago. A lot of people do that that I exactly inthat exactly and I got I was getting matched up reading the book Bush, I'mlike you're telling me I have to troll over my thoughts like what are yousaying to me and then I started realizing that we really do havecontrol over what we think and what we think becomes, and I think that can befrustrating for people, because negative things will appear in theirlife and then you start thinking, I'm responsible for some of these things, aYom life and that's a very rude awakening when yeah. It's realize thatI guess that cognitive reframing yeah, that's a great word, no yer right.That's a phrasing over. I really worked tired on doing that as well. I foundwainie several years ago, he's been Okay Wayne Dyer Ecart Toll Alan Watt,so, alas, really took me three years of his life. Listening to his lecturesbefore I really started to understand what he said. I just really like to heabout to say what he says goes over my head. Yeah yeah, but I know what he'ssaying connects me in some way. Is Yes, it's only recently now that I listenalmonds, I'm like Oh now, I'm like understanding, but he has such abeautiful voice and he's just he was he had a beautiful energy. I forgot. I was going to say somethingabout we, I think you were naming your. You said when Dir citole yeah a Ram Das.Of course those are all my big ones. I forgot where I was going with this lot,though, but speaking of wander though, and all these people, I think they dida lot of good but unfortunate for, like some people with their books and like Isaid it, turned into thinking, they can benefit themselves money. They canmanifest themselves the love of their life, like I want this guy and withthis girl, whatever it may be, because I've ran is that to people like? I wantto manifest this all these things that I don't feel like. I will say I needed,but I won't say, are necessary to manifest because, if, like those thingswill just come, but I think that comes a part of patience, maybe like I justwhen I think of manifactory, I'm not thinking of manifastly stuff, like that,like material things, I guess I m trying to well it's funny, because youknow we do live in a capitalistic society where we have to have moneylike if we are to survive in the society. I mean I mean it's hard to say actually, becauseI guess you could go off and live in theforest somewhere and kind of do your own thing, but you still need resources,so I would say that you, you can still manifest money and love in your life. You know just still goes back to an tot inchin's. I guess for like right now. I'm I'd love to manifest. You know alight. You know a career and psychedelics, because that's what I'mpassionate about- and I know the money will come and you're right about that.You know that's what Alan Watts does a lecture about this where he was like.What do you want to do? What do you want to do? He's like some lady waslike a to ride horses. They go right, horses go ride, horses and the moneywill come, you know and it will and when I did my silicide and ceremonywhen I asked sors what my purpose was. They told me patience and you know Iwas like: What's it out- a purpose, patients and trust the universe, but Iimplemented that and integrated into my life, and you know all these things areopening up and I'm realizing that you know, and then I done my dat ceremonyand they told me my purpose was to help a weaken as many humans, as I possibly can so yeah the ceremony were talking aboutwas like blowing my mind honestly because you're talking about earlier,like a lot of people, aren't as awakened to what's going on and theworld and the universe and side, because it's so true like we are caughtup in social media, the news or whatever, and fortunately it's it'slike poison. I want to say for the mind I call it toxic individualism thatmight be a real dorm. I did know that's a good this and it's highly encouragedin our society. That's a good description of it, but I never thought about like thatyeah, but yeah I just we get caught up in, like you said, work in the eightninety five, eight to five. Whatever it may be, we you caught up in well, weneed to go live this certain life be the certain way because society tellsus to, but I mean a lot of people who have these sychidion trips are awakingfrom a there like everything that I thought I needed to do, or we weretaught to do, I don't need to do and yeah and it's- and I remember like inhigh school and such I meet people who did psychedelics and stuff and I'm notreally aware of. What's going on and people look at them as crazy, I waslook at them as crazy. This person's crazy lost our mon and then really I'mlike they're, actually awakened I'm the wing. I lost my mind I citerea anddon't know what the Hell's going Ono...

...but yeah. I just remember that rememberthat thought of thinking these people are crazy, that the universe can tellyou things and all you er me earlier. I was like I'm not great like I know Isound crazy, but I sort I'm not crazy. It's because we're all you know it'sthat condition. Thinking like and I think it you know when people start tobecome awakened, it is kind of a threat to our structure of our society and ourgovernment and capitalism, especially capitalism, because, let me tell youonce you become awakened, you realize you don't need any of this. You don'tneed those new shoes, you don't even want them, you're, just like whateveryou know. If I get almost great, but I don't really need them. I know likeonce I really started awakening. I went, I went into a Coles and, I'm sorrysorry to mean to say Cole Pin. I had no hartman store. Okay and I just was disgusted immediatelywhen I walked in because and it could be any of these stores Walmart, all ofthem. You Walk in and you can specifically see how things are laidout to manipulate you into buying them, and it was just like the happy pictureson the wall like yeah. You know what I mean like, especially that that servantClara have you heard of Colorina. It's like it's like a funding. I like funlike Oh make. You can buy this product and make for Ese payments or a getsorry yeah, but it's for, like L, just the images they put their like yeah.It's like you know. You can't afford that. Don't be spending all your moneyon those Sho, I mean they're not going to bring you happiness, they willtemporarily. Let me tell you, those possessions will bring you a temporaryhappiness, but just like everything, it's impermanent and they're not goingto last, and that feeling is not going to last and that's when you go to thenext thing. Oh next, I'm gonna buy this and then oh I'm happy. Now I'm nothaving more. Oh, I gonna by this I'm happy now and that's kind of like the Idon't know cycle some people get them so definitely, and I think we turnwhere there like people being depressed is like that, like a little flood ofdopamine, we need we want yeah and then once it goes away, we don't want it anymore yeah- and I always saw like little kids are like that: bad because littlekids, a wit to toy and then O'l get rid of a week later and I'm like yeah weadults to do that as well. We want something really bad and then we don'twant any more and then we're not happy whether it's actual even relationshipsor physical possessions whenever maybe will want something and then a week ortwo later like I don't want any more dis. That's something I'm really tryingto instill in my children now is that I forget what it's called specific word,where it's like tenlake gratification or something whereas like Oh, I knowyou want this. You want this one thing and it's going to be so cool when youget it, but we need to do this this and this before you can get it or we needto. You know like a example, my son wants me to buy the it's only six dollars: Five N.ninety nine, it's a minecraft thing. I forget what it's called, but it's likethis little package. You can buy a mine craft and really really wants it and Iwas like well, you know. Maybe we should earn it do some choresor something so we agreed he's only six, so we agreed that he would read forthirty minutes a day for the next five days and then I would buy it for him and that'swhat he's doing every day he's like I got two days left. I got one day leftand I think that's really great to instill in your children, because thenit helps them as adults to be patient yeah these things and not be like. Ineed it now. I'm spending all my money on this. One thing that's great becausenow, when, like you said when he grows up he's gonna like we talk war, hepeople that just Oh, I hope to get this thing, but I'm not actually going towork towards it. Yeah is he's gonna actually learn to work toward thatBatwa. Just talking about capitalism, I guess his bring this discussion likebig farmer, which I'm sure you're, where about how it's it's frustrating,because I like that's, obviously the reason why secede ICS and cannabis andall these things are illegal, because big farmer needs to find a way toprobably make money off of it and profit and that's why there's obviouslyno research or I said there is some research, but not enough that even forcannabis, which is fairly more illegal now everywhere, but still not enoughresearching as well. It's definitely fear. I don't know, fears the rightword. I do get a little yeah, fearful about the medical ization of plantmedicines and what the farm big farm is going to do withit, because this is a topic I o usually talk about,but I have very strong opinions about. I would love to her because I I shoulda I mean this is obviously tied to what's going on now, like bat yeah toYeahlin. Well, I just feel that you know it's a for profit industry andthey are trying to increase their profits just like every other forprofit industry. It's. How much did they make the last quarter? Did theyincrease their profits this quarter and when you have a business model that isspecifically gaining getting getting money money money? Can You keeppeople's best interest at heart when your main purpose of the company is togain profits? I don't think so. Thousands of years of history would sayprobably not right Soi. I think it is important to haveregulations in...

...you know like prescription drugs, ofcourse, but it's also like look at our opioid epidemic. You know I was justtalking to someone about this the other day I I had kind of an addiction to open it asa child, because every I had chronic strepto growing up and every time I doct more, not my doctor.My parents took me the doctor. I would get hydrocodone I'll get lord time andI was like eight years old, getting my bubble gum on Max Asilo and my bottleof Lord Haven for the pain, and so that was like eight and then I was ten. Iwas get every single time and then I turned eighteen and I was doing my ownmedical care making my own and I would get sick and I'd go the doctor andthey're like. Oh we're, not prescribing you lord to soon like. Well, youprescribe them for the last my entire childhood. What why not right now- andI realize now- that's because that's when all of the the OPIOID crisis started to be in andthey were having to not prescribe as many opioids and you know it's it's a hot mess, and itis something that I fear that won't be handled it kind of their sacred plant medicines, becausethey're sacred they've been used for thousands of years as religioussacrament from many different types of tribes and cultures around the worldand by medicalizing it and by a big form, a taking control of it. I feelthat it really hinders the unconditional eleven source- energy-tak, some meaning away from it yeah entirely. I know it's probably going tounfortunately come to that day, where that's going to happen, probablybecause, when they start doing real research they're going to realize howmuch it helps people, especially for mental heals as well, like you said,maybe his kids, a friend had that may be something but like depression andsuch I feel like I've, heard and seen the research where it does helpsignificantly. Oh Yeah Johns Hopkins has been doing silician sessions, for Ithink, O close to twenty years now and of mdia as well. So yeah I hear him domuch. Yeah maps is in their face three trials of the MDME they're, hoping toget FDA approval by the end of next year. So that's and that's funny,because this is where the shifting of the definitions and the narrative comefroms, because what do we think about when we think about MBA? We think aboutmolly, no fortin. I'm thinking go to the festivals like like taking my, but then you start to realize, like Ohthere's, actually, a deep internal, full internal benefit to this medicine, and I will say that most of the Mallinext to that you get yeah, it has other stuff in it. It's not your India yeah,exactly whereas maps, of course is doing pure and DNA sessions for PTSDfor depression, they're also doing trials with IOWAS CA. El Stee I meanthey're doing everything. So it's just it's a beautiful beautiful thing: it'sjust where will it go? Yeah? That's! I know the government's going to get ahold of it. What the Hell is going to happen ter that night? What concerns Iknow Ye, but it's just as you bought that up, because I've I've had peopletell me. Oh, I just took molly and I'm thinking. Oh, you want to concertsomething like no at home with a friend. I'm expecting them tell me this crazyexperience, but on I'm just really happy yeah. I E to where I cried andI'm like. Are you serious? No yeah yeah, it's as like what the hell and then Istarted researching into it and the like get a molly in these things. Youhave ecstasy that they, even though they have this like connotation of likenegative at already drug that actually can make. You feel a lot bettermentally and I'm like really that's interesting. I know it is crazy that,like I've done molly when I was younger like festivals and concerts and stuff-and I told myself- I would never take it in because I did it multiple timesand every time I would just crash for a week and be severely depressed, and Iwas like I never taking. That is nope no nope, but I can see now that wasmost likely because when I took too much the night before- and it was justlike you know- I think it's like don't but me n, Serato, a just flushes, yourbrain and then you're depleted. It has to build its way back up. I think I'mnot sure but yeah. That's what that's where themedicalizing its benefits is that now we see that you know you have a setbecause it's not just like oh come on les do Molly. They sit down with thepatient and have sessions before the actual MBA session. So I think theyhave one session and then they have an MBA session and then they have aregular session and then one more mdmes ion and than a regular session and yeahit's curing. I mean think about all these veterans. We have so manyveterans in Oklahoma and in our country and sorry for my French, but our governmenttreats them like shit. So look. We spend huge amounts of our country's budget onthe military, but then we ship these men and women off to do horrible things.My brother was in the navy for a long time, a's a firepilot and they do theseterrible things and they come back and...

...they're like great thanks. You didgreat have a good life, like I'm sure. Maybe they get some benefits of likemedical care or insurance. I don't know, but if you see how many veterans aresuffering we're. Obviously doing something wrong we're doing somethingreally wrong. Yeah I've thought about it. I mean this obviously gets kind onthe politics, but I mean still kind of all connected the fact that you know Ilike this country is built on patriotism and being pitrot and stuff,but I'm like at the same time I see a lot of veterans are homeless or appytasty or a Edecon or editions. I don't hear great story with in suicide. Ayeah I mean it goes. It literally can go down line of things, that's wrongwith veterans, even with like with nine eleven. I can't remember who it was,but I remember he was like talking to the center or whatever trying to getthem funds, not eleven veterans, trying to get some funds for PTSD and takingcare of their because they call like nine eleven cancer and they had a fightin vight fight it. I think, for a decade a right. So I'm like it's kindof odd that we're built on patriotism and being patriotic yeah, you're yeahyou're, totally speaking my same language. Is I talk about this all thetime? Actually, like you know, the the bald headed Eagle and the American flagon the back of the trucks. The American plan, like you, know it's great, to beproud of your country, but fully, but just understand that you know just asmost things in our life or a contract country is a construct. So we createdthat idea of you know like. Oh it's US versus over here. It's them over thereactually we're all on the same planet. Guys did you we forgot a little bit,but I think it's good to have pride in your country, but it's when it becomestoxic is when it becomes an issue and that's something you kind of saidearlier about it's. It's kind of dangerous for a D I wont say dangerousis dangerous for the government. If everyone were to be doing psychedelicsor awakened to this, because then they realize we're in a social contractwhere we realize it is contrarie that, because imagine if, if there was hugeawakening and everyone ei everyone over there, that country's not or in theenemy we're all connected, yes, everything's fun, and then what aboutwar and military? Like all that money, the weapons you know all kinds of stuffit is, it is a threat. I think it is a threat, and I've said this before isthat I think right now: it's fine because it's still kind of like theplant medicine, and so it's kind of like underground, there's just a fewplaces that have decriminalized it throughout the country. It's when the majority starts gettingin when I think government officials will step in. Hopefully that willhappen because I don't think they would want that to happen on sly because,like I said, imagine all that money, just taxes yeah now you're supposed tobe buying stuff we're moving back at her. But I wascurious. We talked about these ceremonies, okay, so for people who'venever done one never done know what that is. Obviously we know what thepsychedelic experience like a trip, but what's his ceremony, what do you whenyou say ceremony? What do you mean a ceremony? There's typicallyfacilitators, possibly a shaman there's a shaman. If you go to an Iowa,Co, Erma just depends on who you're doing it with where you're doing it. But basically it's just a more it's going to be a group of people.There's going to be candles, lit we're going to be staging the area aging,each other we're going to be setting our intentions. It's definitely a moreintention. It's setting the intention and being in this group, because youwill feed off of everyone's energy with this with the mushrooms, and thatwas the really interesting thing because they said that and I was likeokay yeah, whatever not whatever, but I was like. Okay, I don't know that means, and then it was like I would breatheand then they would breathe it. You know it was just like that's how Icould realize how connected we are was during that ceremony, because there wasfour other people. You know we're on our own little maps and then there was,I think, three or four facilitators, and it was just like we would betalking about an issue because then they would, they came aroundindividually, would kind of discuss things that we had brought up like Ibrought up my perfectionism and every time they talk to one personwe it's like, we could all relate to what they re s saying, even though it'snot a specific experience we dealt with, it was like we could find an experience.It's like we auditale could figure out the experience in our life that relatedto that and receive a lesson from it from each person and yeah. So it sounds beautiful, like issounds like just a full of energy between it. Absolutely it was, and youcould feel it and you could maybe even see it. I don't know that it makes me really grateful to be inthis human form on this planet, and I think a lot of us aren't grateful for being in this humanbody. I think a lot of us try to run from how we feel and try to fight it all the time, and...

I it's a real blessing. Do you thinkit's safer for people if they're not the know, much about Sarcees to do likea ceremony say for Oly, Say Aver Better. I guess you want to say because, likeyou said, environment sat and settings very important so from what it soundslike that's. It sounds like that be so because you get on just depending onwho you do with it. You get on going support, they're, going to do an intakewith you they're, going to see what kind of medications you're on they'regoing to talk about your intentions, we're going to talk about any thingissues you've been going through lately that you're wanting to heal, maybe pasttraumas and then there's going to be expert facilitators there. That canhelp you that are trained and that because the big the important thingwith like a guide is they can't talk you down. They have to talk you throughand when you start trying to top people down, that's when they start becomingresistant, but if you talk through the feelings like, if someone's goingthrough a difficult experience, it's like well, why are you feeling thatright now? Oh you know I was abused as a child,you know and then you dissect it and go through it. It's like therapy. It's itreally is it's. You know not to put therapy down at all, but these experiences can give you thebenefit of you know. Sometimes years of therapy, can you yeah in one session. Inever thought about it like that. That makes sense, but so, lastly, last Limicro dosing this, like everyone talks about that now, like I've, heard peoplemicrotone taken, like I guess, like a Graham or two like, I don't knowexactly how it works. Yeah, I don't know the specific dosages two pillarsfoundation in Oklahoma does a microdon course that people can look up, but I know it's like point one, GrahamO, I sold okay. I saw this thing online because I was because this was the onequestion that he'd sent me that was like I don't know do I want to answerthat like about dosages, and I saw this one thing- it was like point one topoint five, and I was like that's really how I thought point: Half aGraham was kind of high for a microdots, but there's a very specific way, you'resupposed to do it, I'm not an expert on it, but like you're, also supposed to setintention with that. Okay, so, like in our society, you know we're pop a pilland be better right. Well, this is different. Micro. do saying, is aboutalso setting the intention for that day, taking your micro nose and then you'resupposed to like take break, so you might take it for two days and then nottake it for two days and then take a two days and not take it for two daysbut and you're, taking such a low level that you're not going to have any sortof visuals or anything, it's just like the almost physical heart openingbenefits from it. But it's it's a beautiful thing. I meanlook at Silicon Valley, those guys down there, a blown it up at the microtoneand I'll. Do it. The purvis that I mean you've never obviously said you're nextper anything, but from what it sounds like it's just psychodes, just trulyindividuals who have a love and a passion for PSYCHEDELIC. You know noone's trained or like, but he can't be, but still no one's, yeah, expert andGonta know everything anyways about it yeah. But it's just open minded peoplewho have done it and are willing to teach people about it and teach as muchas you can like seems, like you know, a lot of courses and other things as wellabout stuff like that. So only everyone know that I mean by no means change,obviously didn't say it, but not expertise at all. I don't never met.Someone has expertise in anything really, as you can't know everythingabout anything, but especially with how psychedelics is and concerned we're inOklahoma, you're not going to be able to probably get all the information,especially from Internet. It can't be huntin values from the Internet and Er.No, it was kind of just a self taught thing that you have tolearn but yeah. Luckily, I feel like there's a like. You said a group come togetherand, like you said, if people come and feel that loneliness after a trip or an experience, you can helpthem or have questions or anything they can come and then direct them todifferent resources, yeah and so sorry. What would you say every Tuesday you doyou'll do a meeting. Sorry or let me see her or do a Taco Tuesday, I'm gonna,say the third Tuesday yeah every month, soour next one's going to be August. Seventeenth, we do it from six to eightPM. We haven't chosen the restaurant yet, but you know it's: We chose aMexican restaurant, usually an Okaseri that hopefully has like Takooshaspecials and then we just get together and we talk and we eat and it's so muchfun the one last year or not. Last year last month, I met a lot of really coolpeople, and this is the thing is that I was like scared to go, because it waslike the first one that it was just going to be me going with. You know thegroup, and it was that fear right. It was that what I think a lot of us do,it's like when we go to social situations, were like. Oh, I'm scared like. I don't want to gowhat, if no one shows up what? If I don't have anything to say what, if youknow you know, do do do do, and I...

...what I can tell what I the advice Ihave for people now is that, instead of running from that feeling really leaninto it lean into that fear and lean into that anxiety, because once you doyou're going to start building such beautiful relationships, you're goingto start meeting amazing people and your life is going to start to blossom.That's awesome, that's very great, to know so sing. I'm sorry I got say or Gin I seeguys- are a Hedas much longer right, an that's how I was sticking the wholetime, you're saying but yeah. So you can go meet up if youhave questions about psychedelics or anything regarding psychedelics maywith you guys how many people, as he usually the last one there was like twelvepeople, so yeah as group, I thought so yeah. Ithought that was great. The one before that was only like five, but you know Isizes matter the quality over quantity, of course, but yeah you can like I said, and Iemailed and I luckily she was back out, but I'm assuming you obviously Mopeople back. I have in question absolutely yeah. You O our emails,psychodes society, okay, at g MILCOM. We have a public facebook group,Psychedelic Society of Oklahoma, and we have a private group that you can askto join through that facebook group at Oklahoma, psychedelic society workingon some branding for the organization, New Logo, we're voting on a new missionstatement and hope to you know, start up the whole instagram account and allthat jazz to get our name out there more hopingto get incorporated on the state levelbefore the end of the year. Have a public website launched possibly amembership program for the end of the year, but you know I'm just tressed inthe process. I sons really fun. I'm in again, like I said it was very new,very new, especially with ovid. I know that slows things down, yeah legallytrying to get legally things done, and just people probably being worried ofmeeting and all that type of stuff as well. So yeah like I said you can reachout, so you can do sycee on facebook. Like I said you can Google at that'show I found it. My literally psychedelics Okooma- and I just foundit so we're also trying to I'm sorry to jumpin on the gias going to say we're also trying to support gain supporters forthe national decriminalized nature movement. That is a national non profitbased out of California. That is supporting all of the other states andcities that are wanting to decriminalize plant medicines, and weare hoping to get some sort of resolution out to either NormanOklahoma City Tulsa within the next six to twelve months resolution is in wordsto decriminalize plant medicines, Lomako plant medicines, yeah was it Massachusetts. There's, like, Ithink, ten cities in the United States that have decriminalized on the citylevel I O and s it's not like decrits. So basically, the resolution statesthat the city cannot put any resources any funds towards prosecuting sobasically decriminalize yeah new, on pretty sure Colorado did that growth,Denver, yeah okay, so I o yeah and then like Portland decriminalize. I think,like everything right, everything we're focusing on the play resolution isbasically just to prevent from criminalizing it yeah thecity council approves it and then it's on the city level. Owor, awesome, yeah,that's a great great message. I hope I'm all for it anyway. I can help I'llhelp as well, because, obviously that would go into like signing likepetitions and all that he just like a medical canvas. Cot. Okay, awesome well,Operando, like I said please, you like, I said you can go saktos of Oklahomafacebook and you can reach out to emily and cheese. Awesome. Talk to you likeis his great stories and, like I s was Tiarella you I'll talk to a lot ofpeople done. SARCODE, ICS and he've. Told me, you know, vively what'shappened, but you've told me the best, like you describe in exactly what theHell is going on, and it helps me better understand it because I'm alwaysconfused like yeah. Exactly it's not like what the TV shows there may beshit yeah. I hope pen do this episode, like I said you can resell, Saco,exciting and join them on talk on Tuesday once a month. So I waver justhelp us o Route.

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